Wow. Just... wow.
Remember the protest that was scheduled for this weekend against Mark Driscoll's church? And the open letter that Rose Swetman posted about it?
And Mark Driscoll's musings on the meeting can be read at his blog as well. (HT Bob Hyatt)
Wow. Just... wow.
 | Wow. Just wow. They all met together in peace and listened to each other. You can read all about the Meeting With Mark Driscoll at Rose's blog. It's the most grace-filled and refreshing blog post I've read in quite a while. Way to go, all participants in that meeting. And Rose, well done and well blogged. |
Wow. Just... wow.
posted by Robbymac at
6:39 PM
14 Comments:
Robby,
I agree that Rose's post was wonderful. And Mark's...not really.
Grace,
True, but in Mark's case, it's a step in the right direction, which is more than a lot us had dared hope for.
And I think your post on the topic was excellent -- one of the best -- and I'm sorry that you took some heat over it from a few commenters. Thanks for living up to your online pen-name: grace.
This is about conversation, isn't it? Rose's post was a nifty thing to see.
However . . .
I note that in Mr. Driscoll's blog, he mentions having hired a media person. This, presumably, will make more difficult for him to publicly insert his foot in his mouth.
I'm not sure what people were hoping for from Mark... it seems to me that some people were wishing Mark would fall on his face in utter brokeness and resign from Mars Hill and then go submit his life to a committee of feminists for counsel (it sounds like that from some posters on other blogs anyway).
If only every disagreement could be handled this well the Xian world would be a much better place... people with differing views humbling themselves by apologizing and then agreeing to be respectful towards the other. That's more than I expected.
I hope that people who were tossing in their $.02 will be as humble and respectful (and issue their own apology). I've seen it on the protest organizers site, and from Helen over at Conversations at the Edge (but not yet from other OTM bloggers). I hope that any other blogs that have commented on this choose to participate in apologies as well.
Actually, I'm hoping that Mark's latest post ISN'T supposed to be the promised public apology. 'Cuz it certainly isn't.
And yes, I've read some of the blogs that were asking for what you mentioned, but I don't think they represent the majority -- I think most were just hoping for something simple like "I realize that some things I said have hurt people, and for that I'm sorry".
When I read Rose's post, it just blew me away. Mark's post seemed a wee bit strange in that he claimed that people thought he was attacking Mrs. Haggard; maybe I missed it somewhere, but I can't recall anybody saying that.
"Fruit in keeping of repentence" would be the ultimate goal, regardless of what words Mark uses or doesn't use in his online, written, and verbal communication.
Emerging Grace has also posted some good thoughts on this that are well worth hearing.
Not wanting to beat a dead horse over this issue but...
I read Mark Driscolls post and my heart went out to him.
I have been saddened by the continued airing of Mark Driscolls failings especially after he has humbled himself and attested to his own immaturity.
Regardless of whether or not an apology has been forthcoming the bible tells us that "Love covers a multitude of sins".
We cannot be accountable for what someone else does but we can be accountable for our own conduct in regards to this.
We are all fallible and constently in need of grace so lets extend this grace to Mark in the hope that God will continue to extend his grace to us - (and continue to hide the multitude of our own sins :) )
Well that was quite a sermon and I will probably regret posting this but hey
Also note Rob - this is in no way personally directed at you but to the wider blogging community
Tali
Robby,
My concern is not with Mark at all, I don't care if he issues a more complete apology or not. My concern with those of us in the blog world who aren't personally involved with this story yet want to carry the offense of others when they (the offended parties) clearly have already forgiven and reconciled.
Mark can make more mistakes & blunders and be more theologically or doctrinally wrong than others/you/me but walk humbly before God and therefore be used (in a good way) by God more effectively than us simply because of his right heart vs our wrong heart attitude. Put another way, it's better to have dirty hands and a clean heart than the opposite, and better still to have both clean hands and a clean heart.
In the words of Roughriders ex-coach Danny Barrett, "You can either be better, or bitter". I'd rather DO what is right (and be better for it) than BE right (and potentially be bitter because of it). I'd rather model the grace I've been given by God and that I want to recieve from others.
Re. Grace's blog, I read it and the following comments and would have to say that my views reflect your friend Brother Maynard's views in his responses to Grace.
I hope not to offend by asking this question, but is it possible that due to the hurt people have received at the hands of church leaders and due to the possibility that they haven't yet fully healed, that the feelings they have toward those leaders who hurt them are being reflected toward other leaders within the church world (in this case Mark)?
Mark's post seemed a wee bit strange in that he claimed that people thought he was attacking Mrs. Haggard; maybe I missed it somewhere, but I can't recall anybody saying that.
The only place I saw it was Dan Savage, Seattle's resident angry Christian-hater. That doesn't count.
(Warning:rough language)
ksg,
I appreciated hearing Brother Maynard's perspective on this issue, and I felt that we had a good conversation.
Even though I shared my opinion about Mark's latest post, I have no desire to see his hide nailed to the wall or the drama of this issue prolonged unnecessarily.
Personally, I feel that his future response is between him, God, and the people in his life.
Mark's post seemed a wee bit strange in that he claimed that people thought he was attacking Mrs. Haggard; maybe I missed it somewhere, but I can't recall anybody saying that.
It's all over the comments at Bob Hyatt's site and Conversations on the Edge.
Incidentally, I have been struggling and for the life of me, I can't find a single thing that I think Mark should have apologized for. The worst thing he did was offend some feminists. No one has the right to remain unoffended by anyone.
It's all a bunch of poor me sob-stories and mostly BS.
KSG is right (above). If you don't live in Seattle, and/or you're not a Christian, you've got no business even considering posting about Driscoll. get over it.
Grace,
I agree, your conversation with Bro. Maynard was good. Thank you both for thinking differently but agreeably.
I look forward to reading more of your posts, your personal story resonates with me (similar to mine in many ways). I appreciate your experience and perspective. (I'll post this on your site as well)
Thanks Robby for allowing me to hijack this thread.
KSG,
No worries. I've appreciated the way you've been interacting with friends of mine at this blog who have differing opinions and yet are conducting themselves in a way that is worthy of the name "Christian".
Grace,
You and Bro. Maynard have set an exellent example of courteous, respectful dialogue in the middle of all of this. I'm honoured to have the two of you as friends.
I agree -- none of us here wants Markie D. struck up by his intestines. Nor is there anything to be gained by needlessly prolonging the drama.
Andrew,
(sigh)
I really struggled with how to best respond to your comment. Options that came to mind:
(A) Just delete an offensive and surly comment. This isn't the kind of dialogue I want on this blog.
(B) Ignore the comment and leave it as a example of how NOT to have a Christ-like conversation.
(C) Hope that you're a reasonable person when not all riled up, and that a more productive conversation could evolve in time. This has been a very emotional issue for people on all sides.
(D) Leave a comment of my own (since you have left no email or blog address to contact you privately), letting you know that future comments from you that have this level of antagonism and spiteful dismissiveness will be deleted.
After pondering these options for a bit, I'm opting for a combo of (C) and (D).
Politically Correct Censorship?
Here is a link to the KIRO News interview of the instigator of the protest against Pastor Driscoll. Judge for yourself:
http://kiro.radiotown.com/audio/dorihour1.mp3
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