Charismissional Progress
 | I've just finished reading Permission Granted (to do Church Differently in the 21st Century) by Graham Cooke and Gary Goodale, absolutely loved it, and I'm going to go out on a limb and heartily recommend this book as a part of what will hopefully become a larger collection of post-charismatic, charis-missional resources. |
When the original vision holders operate from a functional paradigm, being task and purpose driven, then they are often more protective of their turf. Their original vision cannot be touched. If it is adjusted, it is always top down. They believe they are the sole arbiters of the vision and that God has brought people to the work to serve them... When people are not empowered to discover their identity and pursue their destiny in Christ, then they are not being discipled but used. (37)
Accountability is not about controlling people but about enabling them to discover the freedom that exists in making wise choices. The only acceptable "control" in church life is the fruit of self-control that comes out of our ongoing relationship with the Holy Spirit. Accountability in its finest sense is not about submission. It's about the agreement to be righteous. (50-51)
It is the goal of leadership to teach everyone how to hear God's voice and to be led by the Spirit. It is the goal of leadership to train, equip, empower, and release the saints into the work of the ministry. It is the goal of leadership to follow after God so closely themselves that they become a model, a pattern, and an example worth following. It is the goal of leadership to facilitate, through friendship and trust, a proper framework for accountability that is powerful and relational without being based on some armed forces structure. (141)
| David Ruis will be in town here in a few days, and I'm hoping to grab a coffee with him (yeah, right -- get in line, ya dreamer...) and ask for some feedback on the Whatever Happened to the Holy Spirit? conference earlier this year. Check out Basileia Community, the charismissional Vineyard church plant that David and his wife Anita started in Los Angeles. David is my hero of the "let's deconstruct the Vineyard" crew, and while I miss him and his visionary unpredictability, let it be known that he still owes me a Guinness, but I'm not bitter. (Get it? Guinness? Bitter?) |  |
Last but not least, this is a graphic that I'm going to use in a Powerpoint presentation, depicting apostolic ministry in a charismissional paradigm.
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posted by Robbymac at
5:35 PM
24 Comments:
Ditto to all you said about David. He's FANTASTIC, and a lifeline to us grapes.
I can't believe I haven't even heard of this book! Do I live under a rock?
I enjoyed your excerpts, and I'm bumping it to the top of my must-read list.
I am also looking forward to reading Alan Hirsch's latest about apostolic ministry. I have a feeling it will be a much truer representation of apostolic ministry than what I've been exposed to.
Grace,
I'm also looking forward to Hirsch's book for the same reasons. I only "discovered" Graham's book because I was invited two weeks ago by the senior pastor of a large charismatic church to attend an "informal gathering" about church leadership and church structure, and the book was required reading.
Got my curiousity piqued, that's for sure! And the added bonus is that the book is a good charismissional resource, written by a known and respected prophetic voice in the charismatic stream. Not unlike when Jack Deere, former cessationist professor at Dallas Seminary, wrote Surprised by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
Interesting days these are! First your situation drastically changes (re: your CLB, not your kitchen), and now this. Cool.
Pat,
Yeah, David is a great guy, and one of the Vineyard's most well-known charismissional voices, as well as a tireless advocate for a missional presence among the poor and marginalized. It was an honour to journey with him during our season of detox, and to catch his heart for urban ministry in the process.
But he still owes me a Guinness. :)
Thanks for the recommendation. I have already passed it on to others.
By the way, when are we going to get an update on your book?
Peace,
Jamie
Oooh, that book looks GREAT!
Good sounding quotes Robby. And your two ships for Apostolic ministry paradigm is really cool. At first I didn't get it, but then it clicked. :)
As much as I enjoyed your book, anything you recommend I'll take seriously. Love David Ruis too!
What's the name of Alan's new book on the Apostolic? I'd be very interested in it.
Great excerpts from the book. Too much to read!
ooo, if the new Hircsh book is "Forgotten Ways" I need to get that.
Sally Morganthaler recommended it to me. I like what she said, "As leaders we need to remind people of who they are, not tell them what to do."
I think that's quite charismissional.
I'll bite on the pic. The Apostolic ship is the tug boat, guiding, not controlling, the church in the way she should go. The tug boat navigates difficult waters, and prevents the larger ship from running off course or crashing, leaving it's contents (the good news?) apart from those who are to recieve it. The apostolic is not the deliverer of the goods, but the guide to help the ship reach it's destination. It is truly equipping the body to do the work of the minsitry.
Am I close?
Of all the songwriters in the Vineyard, David's music touched me the deepest. I have long admired his vision wrt being at the margins.
A few words about the conference would be much appreciated.
Dana
Dana,
Looks like I WAS being a dreamer... David is in town now (or so I hear) but his schedule is nuts. I've emailed him, but perhaps I'll hear about mp3's or something later.
David,
You nailed it. The tugboard is the apostolic (as would be each of the five-fold ministries); operating in a paraclete (coming alongside) manner, much like the Holy Spirit is The Paraclete.
The tanker (the Body) carries what is really important (gifts, callings, dreams & visions, ministries) and the five-fold tugboats come alongside to nudge and guide, but the tanker is the "big deal", not the tugs. And when the tugboats have done their job, the tanker continues on, and the five-fold tugboats repeat the process with other tankers.
Of course, all metaphors eventually become inadequate to provide complete descriptions and direction, but for now, I'm kinda partial to the five-fold tugboats! :)
Jamie,
There's not much to update just now, actually. There's some legal stuff that has to be addressed first (UK taxation numbers for a Canadian author publishing through a UK company -- whew! And I thought Canadian tax laws were inscrutable....).
Almost over that hurdle (the contracts were signed a while ago), so hoping to dive into the editing process in the next week or so. Kingsway has tentatively suggested a spring 2007 release.
Does that help?
Molly,
It really IS a great book. I'd be interested in your thoughts on it, given your unique journey through fundamentalist and charismatic cirlces over the years.
Matt,
You'd enjoy this one! And I'm glad you "clicked" on the tugboat metaphor! :)
dang another book to go on my LIST!
Just what I need
Jerry,
Always a pleasure to help. :)
your amazon link goes to the CANADIAN amazon...the french words tipped me off. ;-)
http://www.amazon.com/Permission-Granted-Church-Differently-Century/dp/0768423805/sr=8-1/qid=1164374654/ref=sr_1_1/002-5636324-5624041?ie=UTF8&s=books
Robby,
I’ve been silently reading your blog for 8 months or so and I figured it was about time I jumped in a bit more.
Thanks for the book info “Permission Granted” ... I'll be ordering it asap. The quotes from the book totally connected with me and the journey my wife & I have been on for the last 2 years. More fuel for the fire that is burning out the remaining vestiges of a religious system (that masks itself as charismatic/pentecostal/W of F Xianity these days).
In your powerpoint presentation, is there a picture that depicts the top down model of 5 fold ministry? Say a picture of trapeze artists forming a human pyramid perhaps? Or a picture of 8 sweating slaves carrying their master who is seated on a portable umbrella-covered throne (a la India, Burma)?
I'm glad to see that there is (some) progress on your book. When I came across your Post-charismatic article (while researching the shepherding movement) it was a huge help to my understanding, both of current (read post-Azuza St) history and on the doctrines and belief systems that have saturated much of the church (at least the one I grew up in) since then. A former elder at my church (now pastoring in Woodstock Ont) was a part of the shepherding movement back in the day (and one of only 2 Canadian leaders at the showdown in Minneapolis) and although he sees church leadership differently, he agreed with much of your observations re. shepherding (although he informed me that Harold Bredeson was not at the showdown and never involved with the shepherding movement {they are acquaintances somehow})
KSG
Robby,
I've ordered the book (at your recommendation) and confess I'm intrigued by Graham. He's traveled in many of the circles Imbi and I used to be a part of and I'm wondering whether he's no longer in those circles...or what? They certainly wouldn't have interpreted the "two boats" picture as you have done.
As they would say dans l'état du Québec, très intéressant.
KSG,
I like your chair-throne idea as a graphic. Actually, I haven't done a graphic for the hierarchical model -- I was just using the tugboat one to provoke thought and discussion (my presupposition is that there are four other tugboats around the tanker as well: pastor, teacher, prophet & evangelist).
Bredeson uninvolved, eh? My source for that was S. David Moore's book The Shepherding Movement: he's the guy that co-authored The Charismatic Century with Jack Hayford. I thought he was pretty credible as a researcher, but I will double-check for clarity's sake.
Thanks for the heads-up, and welcome to the wonderful world of commenting!
Bill,
I've been enjoying the book, although I agree that the authors wouldn't necessarily approve or endorse my two boats picture and explanation. They seem to be advocating a "kinder, gentler" apostolic/prophetic role, but I was impressed that they were being so blunt about viewing the role of the five-fold gifts in such a different way: releasing multiple visions instead of insisting on one top-down vision for the whole Body.
My personal thought is that whether "kinder, gentler" or not, a hierarchical understanding is just asking for trouble at the best of times.
Still, it's a wedge in the door of understanding when it comes to viewing the five-fold ministries through a set of healthier lenses, and for that I'm happy to recommend it.
As always, chew the meat and spit out the bones. Or as a Canadian, perhaps you could relate better to: "Chew the perogies and spit out the poutine"?
Nice blog.
http://z6.invisionfree.com/denominations
(you are very welcome to register and participate anytime)
Yo Robbymac!
Must say I got the tugboat analogy right away. Without the tugboat that huge lumbering thing was going to plow right through the harbour and cause untold damage!
Then again, as far as analogies go, I would never spit out the poutine!
Hey Robby,
If you want I can give you (via email) the contact info. for the pastor in Woodstock - I can almost guarantee he'd take time to talk or trade emails re. shepherding. When I had talked to him regarding your article he had mentioned that he had spoken to Harold recently.
I may have gotten my facts wrong about Harold's involvement in the movement but I'm certain (based on my pastor friend's 1st hand experience) that he wasn't at the showdown.
What amazed me was that I learned that my current church (I grew up in this church, from 5yrs old to now 33yrs old, so I know nothing else) operates internally in almost exactly the same way as the shepherding movement. It's taken lots of reading and asking God for understanding in order to move past the doctrines that I believed were biblical (but not throw out the good stuff).
Hey Robby, got your email (and have since lost it within my new email management system which is buggy)...I'll email Jim at Off the Map, the conference organizer about MP3's, though I'm fairly certain nothing was recorded. It was a very simple, quickly organized, smallish event.
I adore Graham Cooke, even if he does wear touristy kind of shirts, he has amazing insights into this beauty called the Bride of Christ. I'm on his email newsletter list and heard about the book last month. Love the title...that alone had me hooked. I guess I know what I'll be asking Santa for Christmas...:-)
Oh yeah, the boat thing...I had a dream about boats a few months ago after my family began attending a small, emergesque post-modern church here in Portland called The Bridge. Not to go into all the detail, but it seemed that in the dream our small church was like a raft on a big river with huge pirate like ships looming behind us...it became like a picture of how much easier it was to maneuver the raft than a big ship...rafts can get in and out of tight spots and access places that big ships can never reach. The raft has become an effective metaphor in my mind of how team work and smallness can accomplish things that great, big ships cannot...and vice versa...
just though I'd jump in on the boat thing...or should I say, jump overboard ---- LOL---- ok, it's late and I get giddy when it's late... g'nite
Pam,
Thanks for the update on the LACK of audio from the conference. David & I managed to scratch out a few brief minutes (literally about six minutes) after an evening meeting, and he didn't think there was any audio, either. BUT we're going to do some email correspondence to try and fill the gap.
Hey, if you like nautical metaphors, I highly recommend Leonard Sweet's book Aqua Church. The book addresses "Leadership Arts", and it's built completely around the metaphors of nautical navigating, sailing, maps, ship-building, etc. It's probably my favourite Len Sweet book.
bitter? my brother is a stout man :)
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